PAX West 2016 – The Grind – Full Panel

I loved the video, thanks for uploading it 🙂

Wooo! We want more! 😀

About Skinner mechanics. Am I right in thinking that both examining things (like clocks in FF) and talking to NPCs are a form of variable interval rewards? Does that explain why we check everything and talk to everyone? (other than a carry-over from some games where the plot won't move until to walk to a random farmer in town?)

Loot drops are another one; Anyone aware of a list of common skinner mechanics in games?

Other than the Middle Ages, also see the 2016 American election. 8:05

Great video overall, but there is something about USA players and Final Fantasy grind that always strike me as odd. From forum comments and youtube videos they all think its mostly a grindfest with little skill involved, but they totally ignore the strategic elements, the hidden information elements, the inventory/gear managment elements, etc. The grind in final fantasy is mostly a difficulty balance thing but with the right strategic skill you can win them at a very low level. For example, they use the "mute" spell once, see it doesnt works and forget it for the rest of the game. Later, when a wizard enemy is kicking their ass they just say "ugh, this is a grind-wall, I need to grind my magic defense now, no other way arround it!" and then it becomes "attack attack, grind grind". They refuse to do other thing than attackign. USE THAT MUTE SPELL! most of the times that wizard enemy is weak to them and you can obliverate them in a way lower level that you would if you grind. Final Fantasy is mostly about strategic optimization, but as USA players refuse to do other thing than "attack attack attack" it gained the fame of a grindfest. Very sad, as that lead to FF12 and FF13 trying to get to the core essence of that managment and resulted in a huge failure.

I played adventure capitalist because it got me out of bed in the morning. I can second the notion that grinds give you a feeling of accomplishment that can help counter feelings of failure and worthless associated with depression. If used intentionally and voluntarily, I could see games like that being used to help people.

I've watched several of your lectures today. Entertaining! Keep them coming.

The most horrifying thing a DM could do: @smile@ "Roll a Reflex save!"

Fairy Land…. I loved playing this game the first time until I got here. After a WEEK of playing and I walked away and I've never been back.

I do strongly agree that artificial grinds are terrible, but at the same time the concept of reward can be as simple as gaining XP. If combat is great, XP or level progression is like a bonus. I hate MMOs where it is nothing but grind obviously, but games like Borderlands, but also Dungeon Siege Legend of Aranna actually had pretty great 'grinds'. Enjoyable to play, interesting enough to keep playing and the reward tended to be worth it (finding new gear in Dungeon Siege), becoming stronger in Borderlands gaining some new skills etc. Not everything about grinding is bad. But once it turns into a goal in and of itself, like in most MMOs, that's where games go south and destroy the experience. WoW for that matter is NOT a good game.

meaningful reward for meaningful work. the grind is required to feel satisfied with achieving things in games. Grinding and treadmills are two different things. grinding you actually earn something tangible at the end. Treadmills are when you grind and grind and actually get nothing for it, treadmills are solely to keep people playing for that 15$ sub fee. Grinds are something that make you feel satisfied when completing them. nobody likes chores, but you feel good when chores are done. you cant get that feeling of completing something if you remove all grinds from all games. just my opinion.

Content so good I'll waste time wisely coming back.

If grinding is intentionally put into the game to maximize in game purchases, thus is bad.

no, there's not something wrong with your left ear, it's a problem with the audio