Begleitet uns für eine weitere Woche voller Neuigkeiten, Gerüchte und alles rund um Warhammering! Diese Woche schlüsseln wir das neue OBR auf …
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Begleitet uns für eine weitere Woche voller Neuigkeiten, Gerüchte und alles rund um Warhammering! Diese Woche schlüsseln wir das neue OBR auf …
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Great show guys! On the Arkhan v. Katakros debate, I am Team Katakros. +1 to hit and +1 save is just SUCH an amazing buff. I would love to run both him and Arkhan, but I do find it leaves you a bit thin on bodies, especially with the need to have a Mortisan to have Immortis Battleline (which I believe is absolutely essential – they are the best troop scroll in the book right now, and it isn't close). I agree with the notion that a lot of units feel 10-20p too expensive, and I further think that Mortek have shifted in role a bit. I think their defense is rather mediocre compared to the last book, but their ability to absorb offensive buffs with their volume is absolutely phenomenal. I now think of them as counterpunching infantry. Kind of confused by the love-fest for Stalkers, as I don't see them as being nearly as good as Immortis. If you pick defense, their damage is weaker – if you pick damage, their defense is weaker. Also surprised at how bullish you were on the Harvester, since most OBR players seem to dislike him now that they're light on units and have to cut somewhere.
I'm ok with much of the initial old world ranges being old models. we know some new models are coming, we've already seen in progress work for kislev, bretts, & tk. bringing back old ranges on a made to order basis lets them start off with a workable range of factions & units without dramatically cutting into releases for their main line games, and they can update a bit at a time going forward.
sure the individual models wont be as nice as all new stuff, but individual dude quality doesn't matter as much in a ranked battle game where individual dudes get buried in unit blocks. the higher degree of detail and more dynamic poses of modern gw kits is if anything the opposite of what you want.
and yeah, i do still love some of the latter day oldhammer ranges. dark elves (cold one riders, executioners, coursairs), wood elves (archers, clade riders, wild riders), bretts (knights, archers), tomb kings (sphinxes, tomb guard)… there's a bunch of old kits I'll be happy to have back. I'll def be picking up some tomb kings stuff, & might even grab a bunch of bretts to put together a "FEC as they see themselves" army, though that will depend on what the 3e FEC release looks like.
note that the +3 move command is now on normal moves only, you can't also run. as a result mortek guard battlelines are a fair bit slower getting into position in the early game, or getting onyo objectives in the late game.
re: vokmortian 140 for a dual cast loremaster is great. the 160 point guy also needs you to be running little stuff to be worthwhile, as their third cast is sig spell only which only buffs little stuff now. so i could absolutely see vokmortian running in any petrifex style list that doesn't want to shell out for arkhan.
Hot damn Tyler that's awsome that you'll be at CCC ill be there as well playing for CollectorMafia Orange. I'll make sure and say hello and thank you inperson for all the work you do on the show .
I was worried you guys weren’t gonna dive in deep but you nailed it. Great review. Question about the catapult. Couldn’t you spread your shots across their entire enemy army and fish for 5+ for strike last across the board?
When this show started my first thoughts were about how i wish they added more units to the army. Fit perfectly with the early topic. i started to think of the armies i play and realized that problem is quite pronounced in what i use either by army or theme. Several books really need a new unit or 2 over yet another character.
Just saying that mortek guards, Immortis and Necropolis seems a little bit too expensive is just insane. How dare you ^^ these units are so powerful.
To Vince and Tyler I’m going to quote Tom” You guys have lost your damn minds”. You guys obviously haven’t played against bone daddies at the time of this video. The command points are way too many and Katakros get free command point. Why would their characters get free ones when the have so many? Another point for Tyler. You were complaining about Khorne blood tithe murder lust being too powerful and the very next book you guys review the bone daddies book totally canceled out what you were worried about. You can’t use it to engage them because they issue the command to retreat and charge!
I played blades of Khorne against the bone daddies and overall it wasn’t the best play experience. In fairness to you guys you said there would be some negative play experiences against this army. If I didn’t have murder rolls it would have been really bad. My regular attacks did very little damage due to his high saves. Katakros gave out bonuses and took away my command points. Their units got to do everything with abilities and all the command points. Then he brought them back. It sucks seeing 5 wound guys appear back on the table!
To be fair it was my first time playing the new Blades of Khorne book. Enjoyed the show as always and keep up the good work!
Love it when the lord of death makes an appearance
Until they increase points in my experience of playing the army this is a 5-0 army.😅
I think the deepstrike ability for Harbingers may be underrated. The best thing about deepstrike is that your opponent knows you can do it, so they have to protect against it, which often forces them to do something they wouldn't otherwise do.
Seeing a # of concerns. Just to reiterate + expand:
* I think it’s A Tier, with some potential to be out of bounds, but it’s design makes most issues addressable by point changes.
* One of the arguable downsides with the (buffed) quality the army can achieve with some warscrolls: if you have to further increase point values, the army may feel so elite that it doesn’t feel like a “proper army.”
* I think it’s high floor, high ceiling. High floor = you may not find a book with a higher baseline of warscroll quality. High ceiling = that high baseline can become very scary under good decision-making.
* I do worry the book reinforces a feeling I’ve had for a while — that both of the following could be true:
1. The macro will continue to look healthy (ie most factions will fall within 45%-55%).
2. The macro will obscure micro problems, starting with what feels like a level of rock-paper-scissors in the game that might be unprecedented, which then contributes to a lot of players having poor experiences.
Would love to be wrong about #2.
Hey Vince! Do you mind elaborating on what you meant by the term "lacking cut-ins" at 11:26? Also, what was the mention about Player's Handbook about, a Warhammer rules document?
I want to live in the mind castle of the designer who thought "960 is too cheap, better make it 965"
watched the SoW channel with 2 games up and in the second OBR had arkhan and boneshaper with Key which meant he returned 9 mortek / turn to a block of 30. if you do that for t2-t4 which doesn't seem implausible, that is almost 30 morteks back, ie effectively 450pts worth. maybe a good way to visualise that just like with summoning, base cost needs to look high as you are getting a lot of extra pts in during game from this. Add harvester and a less skilled opponent going into multiple units, it gets even more. So on that basis I'm not sure they are undercosted
Rumour is probably ghoul from warcry :v
Yeah, OBR is overtuned or undercosted everything considered.
Thanks!
Everybody saying "this is fiiiiine" are in a burning room
Are any of your ‘crew’ going to Warhammer Fest?
My problem with Arkhan the Black is that he shouldn't be around. Dude's dead. Like, turbo-dead. Annihilated from existence. Why is he still here?
In practice, obviously I don't see Arkhan being a model you can field a problem. GW still wants to sell the model, and players want to be able to continue using the model they bought and painted. I just think the game should acknowledge that Arkhan, himself, no longer exists. Call the unit "Memory of Arkhan the Black". Either a bone construct created to mimic the guy (with like three wizard souls stuck in his head, to make him a triple caster), or say what's on the field is some kind of magical phantom created from the residual memory of Arkhan. Like, his reputation precedes Arkhan so much, it persists long after him too. Make it seem like the Teclis book from Broken Realms actually mattered.
(For that matter, Nagash's "Books" ability should be excised for the same reason. Those books were destroyed. Use it as an excuse to reduce Nagash's point cost, so you're not spending half your army running him.)
Lovely deep dive! I was hoping you and your team would get a chance to do this after you healed up from adepticon:) as Mir Kainan was the only warscroll you guys didn’t cover, could you give some thoughts and post them at the top of the comments section? He’s my favorite unit from the book but will likely receive an FAQ immediately 🙂 thank you!
I agree with the lack of units, OBR should have gotten a few more models to round out such an amazing faction, we need archers, and we needed chariots, some more foot heroes, and maybe another monsterous creature….we got 1 out of 4…..
Good show! Vince, why is it you'd hate to play these guys? Is it to do with their psychographic profile? (Which is what, by the way? Johny?)
I like many of the models (they're not my favourite, but I like them), but this book doesn't sound interesting to me at all. I guess I'm gradually working out what profile I am!