Begleitet uns für eine weitere Woche voller Neuigkeiten, Gerüchte und alles rund um Warhammering! Diese Woche schlüsseln wir das neue Nighthaunt auf …
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Begleitet uns für eine weitere Woche voller Neuigkeiten, Gerüchte und alles rund um Warhammering! Diese Woche schlüsseln wir das neue Nighthaunt auf …
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I second the "Quicksilver Dead' is a reference to 'The Quick and the Dead'. Now we need ghost cowboy
👍👍
1:26:45 I really wish TOs would just do that if GW doesn’t. The army specific battle tactics & grand strategies are pretty much the biggest thing keeping AOS away from perfection.
Is there a vid on the Johnny Timmy type of games in relation to AOS? I did a google search and got some MTG descriptions, but was wondering if there was some clarification. I'll also probably re-watch this weekend when I'm building/painting.
Little bummed Harridans are almost the red headed step child of the battleline with a certain procession. Lady O and Harridans is what got me into Nighthaunts which got me into AOS. Needless to say I will be trying the quicksilver dead force with plenty of Harridans. The scriptor and Coach being bad is both a relief and sadness. I wanted to try to use the models, but i never bought them and it seems I can now save money, and not bother. Spirit hosts being a pain to build oh i know that pain i own 12. Spirit hosts and reapers were my preferred battleline in the old book. While i have I think 30-40 chainrasps i never really liked them.
Things to consider for this book so far. Should I finally buy their endless spells for just the 1? To buy more Harridans when I have 20. I am missing a few units or doubles of certain leaders, but would I constantly run more than 1?
If you really want to make him a tough mouseman, put him on a Snowmeow.
Thanks for the review, guys! Really appreciate when you guys do these.
I think you guys are underselling the black coach.
The laser beam melts support heroes.
In some match ups (like SOB) it does struggle. But it's overall dmg output is actually surprisingly good.
But I do however agree it's currently too expensive.
Came for the weekly dose of awesome Warhammer discussion, stayed for the Bane impression 😀
All I know is that these last few books have made me excited for the new Gitz book… that is absolutely, 100% coming out next… 😭
Myrmourn Banshees and Dreadblades, teleport them near spellcasters in the first round
Vince! Drawn to War is badly worded in a new way,
"Before you allocate a wound or mortal wound to a friendly NIGHTHAUNT HERO, or instead of making a ward roll for a wound or mortal wound that would be allocated to that HERO, if any friendly units with this ability are within 3" of that HERO, you can roll a dice. On a 3+ that wound or mortal wound is allocated to a friendly unit with this ability instead of that HERO and cannot be negated."
the way it is phrased means after you roll that 3+ you can allocate that wound to ANY spirit host unit in your army, since it says "is allocated to A friendly unit with that ability" instead of "is allocated to that friendly unit". In that case, you'd be able to leave a unit of spirit hosts near a hero, have another one get frisky somewhere else, and allocate wounds destined to the hero to the distant spirit hosts instead of the ones near the hero.
I don’t think I’m missing some kind of core rule? This seems weird but it seems to work as per RAW
oh no, they made it an army i want to play…
I don't understand the scriptor mortis hate. I have used him, in one game he did 15 mortals to a GUO(round 2 and 3) and 7 mortals to a LoA(round 5). I mean, sure, he is swingy and very RNG based, but the damage potential and scare factor is amazing. My opponents are constantly trying to focus this guy leaving the rest of my heroes open to wreak havoc.
Nagash: If they were to drop his points to the high 600 low 700 range at a minimum hand of dust needs to go.
Tomb Banshee: Correct me if I am wrong, but if your opponent ONLY has 1 command point they can still issue their command to that unit that is effected by the banshee right? The wording on the banshee adds the +1 cost AFTER the command is issued, so if you still had more command points then you'd lose one. It doesn't actually make the already issued command fail if you can't pay the additional one.
Craventhrone guard: These guys would make sense at 80 points as written, or it 24 inch range as priced. At 80 points you could keep a unit of 5 or 10 floating behind your melee line popping off a few wounds a turn. At 24 inch range they could hold an objective while popping off a few wounds a turn. As they are written I am in agreement, complete trash. Which sucks because the models are really cool. I really want to paint some, but I won't buy models I won't actually use in an army.
Myrmourn Banshee: For me these are an auto grab. Even if I am up against someone not using caster their attack profile is worth their points cost right? @tom, why take a reinforced unit? At 8 models you have to have that stupid ranking rule effecting them making them spread out about as much as 4 would be able to right? Night haunt is never going to be a one drop list, take 2 units, that's 2 24 inch bubbles, way better than a 8 man unit.
Spirit host: Assembly tip! Seriously, go check out reaper miniatures, do a search for grave stones. They sell blisters of like a dozen plastic grave stones that look amazing. Now glue one to the center of the spirit host base. Assemble each "wisp" of the spirit host, drill holes in the grave stone the size of the ends of each wisps tales, and glue them into the grave stone. ZERO frustration, and it's a cool little effect. I used those reaper gravestone on a lot of the models with really fiddly attachment points I was worried about breaking. Olyander's maid servents are coming out of grave stones instead of being glued to her, and the grave stone is also supporting olyanders tiny little attachment point. Some with my lord executioner.
Harridans: As a Maggotkin main these guys scare the shit out of me. If my opponent is using the subfaction where these ignore my ward saves I'm going to be tabled in 2 tursn, 3 tops. Blightkings at a 4+ save vs 40 3/3 attacks? Sure, I get a 4+(3+) save but still thats a unit gone in 2 turns. I have already had a run in with a 10 pack of grundstick thunderers blasting my 20 plague bearers off the field thanks to the new admiral ability to ignore ward saves, and thats a once per game ability. These guys are terrifying and I think you all need to think on them a bit more. I don't have any of these yet, but I plan to get some.
Bummer about the scriptor mortis. I love the model, made me want to get into the faction. I'm still going to play it as I only play for fun and only play with models I think look cool.
cognitive dissonance question – how are individuals with physical attacks damaging ghosts in the Age of Sigmar world? E.g. is a fyreslayer's axe swinging through air when it lays into a nighthaunt?
What are your thoughts on the mourngul?
Come on Vince… join us over here at the ghostly boi table. You can make Rat Ghosts on Spooky ponies!
Damn, making me consider getting the dual box with DoK now…… Even though I haven't even started painting my Maggotkin
Drink every time Tom says, “Let’s be clear”
So gotta come out of the peanut gallery here and disagree with a random side take of yours for an inordinate amount of time here now. When it comes to your claim that "spooky ghosts" scaring people is just not believable in a setting where "mountains will eat you," it sounds reasonable on the surface, but I think it is a superficial take.
When we take into account that AoS is a setting where souls are not only real and tangible, but are a commodity, life and death take on a different context. This is a world where the norm is when you die your soul either returns to your patron deity, or it moves on to one of the underworlds you may believe in that has formed due to that belief in Shyish. It is also where a world, where there are two major factions that subvert this; namely when it comes to Chaos and Death, your soul returning to your god or entering your underworld is the exception. If you die to a nighthaunt or to a daemon your soul is more likely to become the fodder or plaything of these creatures and their gods; tormented and twisted until it is eventually used up and your true essence is no more.
Just take a moment to think of how seriously people in the real world, with no tangible evidence of a heaven or a hell, or gods, or daemons, but who believe in such things, take the idea of the afterlife and their eternal souls. It reaches the point where people will willingly expose themselves to grisly death as martyrs to achieve paradise and escape damnation. So in light of a world where these concepts touch daily life to a fair greater degree, getting gnoshed on by a mountain or stepped on by a giant for about a second of agony seems like nothing compared to the eternity of torment even a lowly Bloodletter or Chainrasp has to offer. Yes, a god-beast showing up, looming larger than life and then devouring you or stepping on you unawares is worthy of some pantaloon-soiling seconds of terror before it abruplty ends, but does not compare to the dread or having the presence of something like the lowliest Nighthaunt or Daemon around for the sort of everlasting horror and agony they will bring you even after you are dead.
So yea, totally get that the idea of things like Skeletons and to some extent zombies (though they still have the horror of wearing the face of your loved ones, eating you alive, and then you returning as one of them to perpetuate this on others) being so terrifying in a world of colossal, rampaging beasts, and armies of Hercules' is rather silly and loses the scope of the setting in favor of playing on real world tropes. That said, when it comes to Undead like Nighthaunt, Vampires, and Bonereapers it takes on an even greater level of dread despite the fact that they are less fantastical and out of the ordinary. It takes one the desperate fear of losing something for greater than your ephemeral mortal life; they mere presence is a threat to something that couldn't possibly be more precious to you: a threat to your very existence in the form of your soul.
Anyways, all this pontificating aside, I just found it a surprisingly surface level take from you Vince, and felt compelled to lay out my own perspective. Anyway, I loved the episode, especially the allusion to NH being the Bane/hipster of making being crappy cool, and have more to say on the tome I will post separately.
Very good commentary. I've watched a couple videos on this battletome and the rules were never summarized well in a big-picture sense. This video went over meta and micro details very much appreciated.
Overall, I'm pretty enthused with this book. Like with the current edition of 40k, GW has done an better job with intra-codex balance (inter-codex is another matter). There are still some very evident misses (Glaive Wraiths and Crossboos), but generally they have managed to given most entries a role worth consideration.That said, there are still some sticking points that frustrate me about the current book.
1. Most of the subfactions feel lazy and are uninspiring. They kind of just build your list for you in many ways be making you lean hard into a certain unit. I would have much rather seen a much broader theme applied, like giving you a bonus for running all the Banshee type units, namely Harridans, Myrmourns, and Tomb Banshees (maybe throw in lady O for good measure). With them you could maybe get some thematic benefit according to their theme. Basically I would have liked to see something akin to the old Battalion Warscrolls and the Broken Realms subfactions. A host of benefits built around a medley of units that share a theme.
2. The Hero Problem. Namely I am talking about all the heroes GW throws at us year after year for our factions, competing over 6 slots and often competing for roles in ranges where non-hero units might be even more limited. Already Nighthaunt have so many, and while I appreciate that they did a somewhat decent job at giving all of them a role this time, it would have been nice to see them tone back the hero range a bit or maybe make more clear power pairs so they have even more distinct roles.
For example, I would have considered maybe cutting the hero keyword from Cairn Wraiths and Banshees and make them more like what they use to be: One model units with good abilities similar to Salamanders or Khorgoraths, and maybe help them out by letting you take up to 2 extra without costing reinforcements. Already in my past and current NH lists I am maxing out heroes and this would help alleviate some of the competition over the slots.
Also, it's I still find Assassin/Hero-Slayer characters a tad frustrating. Sure they are definitely killier now, I fully appreciate that, but they are still pretty easy to punk out before they go and are often not damaging enough to be your first pick in a combat over a more numerous hammer unit. What makes it particularly frustrating is GW already has answers in their toolbox for this, the best being the ability for chaining activations, such as how the Vampire Lord got in the SBG White Dwarf update, or just letting them strike first (which a NH hero can essentially get if you roll a good enough charge and make your enemy fight last). I personally would like to see both of these solutions applied more often by GW in the case of more combat dedicated heroes or heroes that give buffs by slaying models (like Crypt Ghast Courtiers).
Definitely looking forward to playing the book soon though, once I get a few more games in with the Vampires so I can shelve them for a while.
I see the work in these V3 books so far and can’t wait for StD to come out 🙂
How do you get a +1 to hit and wound aura? Am i missing something?
I struggled getting into aos, they killed my boy vlad and I'm still disappointed he's not a mortarch, but the release of nighthaunt pulled me into the hobby kicking and screaming, then the thorns of the briar queen pulled me into warhammer underworlds kicking and screaming. Now I'm just waiting for a warcry warband from nighthaunt to pull me into that kicking and screaming.
You could argue that stormcast are ghosts that made it to 'the good side' while nighthaunts got less lucky…
Another great show with lots of info and great debate. I play against Nighthaunt a lot so this was a great insight into their strengths. They are certainly more formidable now!! 👻👻👻
Here I am, listening to the Nighthaunt coverage….. finishing my Black Coach
le sigh
Love the review guys. The geeat thing to mention about Slitter is that you can position your Hero after the model is removed, meaning you can prevent the enemy unit to get back in coherency with their own pile in move. Or, if you close in on a unit that is already attacked on another flank by another smaller nighthaunt unit (which will happen) you will automatically break the unit if it is stringed out and you remove a model from the centre. I love the Artefact and I'm terrified of the thought of my local Nighthaunt player using it against me. 😉
Am I the only person in the universe who doesn’t know what “MSU” means in this context
Off topic question kind of….. Are all those trophies in Tom's background Warhammer related trophies?????
"Turns out the difference between 6" and 12" is a big deal" – Vince
Perfect sign off line!
Excellent summary and analysis. I have a very different take on the power and point value of the Purple Sun. It is near perfectly pointed and powered up for this season. The season is meant to be about the "little guys" as clearly articulated by the developers. One way to emphasize the little guys is to deemphasize the "god guys". Because the god level model rules are so numerous and complex, this would be difficult to accomplish by tweaking their individual rules. I think the current Purple Sun was a smart way to do this because it is a very simple mechanism that is more or less uniformly applied. Now it may be that a person does not like the flavor of the current season. But in my view, it was a very good design idea and well executed. Comparing the Purple Sun to other endless spells is just not relevant in this instance. The purple sun "season patch" enables players to use their expensive and favored god models with their rules intact and interacting as normal, it means that you have to play them differently. This is really similar in concept to what you have to do with the galley vets, as you have described in detail in this episode.
Yes, "endless spells" are arguably comparable in a logical framework, but when it comes to changes made for a season, one has to acknowledge overall game balance for the whole edition is NOT a thing in some instances, otherwise you could not really have meaningful or interesting seasonal flavors.
Also in regard to beasts of nurgle, lol, "told you so" when book dropped.😉
I see what Tom means about this being an extremely frustrating army for new and Timmy players to play against because it reaches far into all types of debuffs. Funny thing is, I think that plays into who they are as an army. Even some of the most disciplined and hardened armies in the AOS world would likely find it maddening to fight a huge force of screeching, flying, ethereal, vanishing, mostly psychotic ghosts.
A bit of an old video, sorry to necro this, but just wanted to add that Cairn Wraith and Tomb Banshees are from August 2011, while the Hexwraiths are from January 2012 according to my data.
On another note, you did not mention the Mourngul as it's a FW model, but was wondering if you or Tom had an opinion. It is interesting because it now gets a 6+ ward, retreat and charge and still has the old frightful touch that does mortal wounds (you should be able to choose one of the two right?). It is expensive, but a -1 to hit bubble combined with -1 to wound from the Pendant or the Lord-Executioner is nice, 10 wounds with 4+ save, 6+ ward upgradable and self-healing is also not that squishy, and at full health it attacks like a Knight of Shrouds but with MWs…
What is jhonny? Timmy? NPE? missing these terms 🙁