S02E32 – Palace Arcade and PinballFX3 Beta4!

I really miss going to the arcades in the 80's and 90's I spent to much of my life at certain places but hey it's worth it right lol

To be honest I was really pleased with the beta 4 physics Vs the beta 3, as wanted the wild ball. However after seeing your FT real table gameplay I am not happy anymore! You are right – although we get a wild ball, we also get a severe contrast of a slow ball. Sometimes the crazy wild ball speed just dies and the ball rolls down slowly, very slowly gaining momentum. Zen definitely need to do some more work. Maybe this behaviour can't be achieved by just adjusting table and object properties. Maybe it require engine development as well. I really hope that Zen will continue to tune these physics some more even if they release now. One other thing I feel is in a real table it is sometimes hard work to get a ball up the table. It requires specific timing (maybe it is certain parts of the flipper?) and it is tough. Is it simply the flippers are weaker? I don't know, but I know I get a sweat on playing a real game, but in my virtual cab I don't. Maybe it is because the real table remains more tougher? This stuff is so difficult to analyse. Great video btw :).

I pretty much agree with everything your saying. Beta4 is really close, and I think all that's left is small tweaks and nuances that aren't quite there yet. Particularly the flipper angles and shot resolution. Currently it feels like shots that would be made from around the center of the flipper IRL are made nearer to the origin in Zen, and shots that would be made from near the origin IRL are almost impossible in Zen (Try hitting the captive ball coming out of a boat shot in Zen. It's nearly impossible!). This also makes me wonder how hittable the castle in MM or the wrecking ball in Junkyard is. Shots straight up the middle just seem almost impossible at the moment.

One thing in particular that I think helped a lot in beta4 was how the ball now loses a lot of momentum when dropping from the boat ramp wireforms. This seems to have some variation in it which makes it so you can't ever perfect the timing for shooting the boat ramps over and over.

Ultimately, if they were to release the game with the physics as they are now, I'd be pretty happy, but thankfully I think they will put some final touches on it to make it even better, which will make everyone even happier!

I had a Fishtales in my gameroom for a reasonable time and must say that on that game i could make the ramps easy but was difficult to made the left shot to the top. Also on real tables there can be a lot of difference with ball behaviour due to the rubbers, flippers and state of the machine.

well done Greg, I`m happy with the way things are going , I`m now more interested in the animations !!! I`m a lover of fantasy tables and real tables , and I`m over the moon on the animations .

Here is the Papa tutorial for Fish Tales https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60a_nKnEdUA&t=204s just seemed like the ball was moving much faster than the arcade one you were playing.

I think all pinball emulation is nowhere near a real game! Also you have to realise that every pinball table (real one) plays different. You have things to factor in like rubber elasticity, coils getting weak, switches all not working, flippers stronger or weaker, angle of flipper bats…..

Another factor is in my house I can move a real pinball from one side of the room to another and it plays different. Very few arcades have the tables set up perfectly angle wise (as per machine manual).

All the way thru VP (I got into VP when it was VP8) – each revision things do get better but it is still a long way off.

I am not the best pinball player in the world, and I seem to always score more on my digital table. My high score was double on AFM and FG visual pinball versions than the real tables sat next to them.

Visual pinball cabinets are great – lets face it – how are most people going to afford a few pinball machines at today's high prices. I have absolutely nothing against VP. I play probably 20 tables regularly. However I refuse to have my cab online – so I will probably get FX3 Williams pack on Win10 store when it comes out. I dislike steam.

Not sure if you mention it or not as I haven't watched the whole video but something that is missing quite a bit in the current beta physics is the spin of the ball. In real life, the spin on the ball can be quite severe (as seen on numerous occasions in your video). This spin is what causes the ball to have slightly strange trajectories and slow it down on rubber posts and even on the table surface itself if it's worn. This is something the original Pro Pinball tables, especially the later ones, did so well. This spin somehow corrects for a lot of the speed issues of the ball you mention.

The ramps are so hard on that real table you played because it has flipper hop. a properly setup real life table does not have this. A properly setup real table is a better one to compare. you CAN 1-2-3-4-5 fish spinner on a well working real table as well. and for some reason it's easier with the lightning flips. the art of setting up a pinball table well seems to have been lost.

sorry Eade

Ahh I'm loving your vids, not able to play the beta so really enjoy seeing the updates. I have always had a lot of faith in Zen, no surprise to me that so many people are impressed with their attitude.
Oh and that ball rolling sound effect is still way too loud isn't it?

What do you think I should do here? Kick the ball back into play as it were or let it roll out as if the pink barriers weren't there? (Could happen in real life) https://youtu.be/hUzmwTlnphk?t=11 Bit of a conundrum but I'm tempted to "keep it real" and let the ball drain out.

Thanks for the continued feedback! There are some good points made in the video, and we know there is still work to be done. We are actively working on the subtle physics elements you point out in the video, such as flipper reaction. During the beta, we do feel the team was able to make huge improvements in a short amount of time, and we are feeling good about where we are. To answer your question about commitment to physics: We are OVERLY committed to making this perfect — there is no question about this on our end.

We do hope that the community will take into consideration that the pinball machines we are using to benchmark the new Pro Physics simulation are in really good condition and play like a new unit would. It is our experience that, especially two decades since a table’s release, no two pinball machines play exactly the same – you can have a very wide variance in gameplay depending on the age of the machine, how well it has been maintained, pitch on the floor (is the game level?), and other factors. Comparing the Pro Physics in Pinball FX3 to different real-world machines is going to produce different results based on the actual machine being compared to. See the Zen Studios channel for a video we produced showing gameplay from the Fish Tales machine in our office to actual Fish Tales gameplay in Pinball FX3. As you can see, ball behavior is pretty spot on.

Thanks for taking the time to make your videos, we really enjoy them!

Our new video:

https://youtu.be/ts5rfZA-hNg

Its a shame to see all those original coin doors ruined by the the card readers…

I noticed you now have the DMD working? Is that something that was included in beta 4, or did you hack it somehow?

Plays slow and hard to make ramps.. yep, sounds right.